EW: Congratulations! The rest of Nagarote found you less annoying that Max. Would I be correct in assuming that is not going to rank very high on your list of life accomplishments? SHIRIN
OSKOOI: Max and I are the kids who sit at the front of the class, who
put in our 10,000 hours of practice, who dress up on holidays. That
makes us annoying to this particular group of people on Survivor,
and it makes us extremely accomplished in our lives and careers. So no,
it’s not high on my rather long list of accomplishments. :) Okay, let’s talk about monkey sex. What exactly
about that experience compelled you to watch and then share all the
details with the rest of your tribe? And after you get done answering
that question, please share every last detail with us ‘cause I am
actually kind of curious.
Monkey sex isn’t “wham, bam, thank you ma’am” straightforward. There’s a
foreplay ritual that’s fascinating involving the female kissing the
male then forcing her butt upon him over and over until finally the male
gives in and plays ball. The male then goes back to eating like nothing
happened, and the female runs away, moving on with her life. It was
like being live in the studio audience of National Geographic.
At this point in the game I was bored and miserable. Joaquin
and Tyler were openly mean and condescending to me, and we all tiptoed
around them. Even Max (rightfully) avoided me to stay in good with the
other men. The monkeys actually talked to me (and thankfully not about
their sexual conquests unlike some other animals out there) and were a
welcome distraction from…nothing. There is literally nothing they
distracted me from because there is nothing to do most of the time on Survivor. So you have sort of pioneered a new fashion style here on Survivor:
the top-on, bottoms-off look. What is that all about and did anyone out
there seem to take issue with you walking around bottomless?
I believe it is called “shirt-c—ing,” and Burning Man popularized the
look. I was washing dishes just before sunset and didn’t want my bottoms
to get wet. That would have been unsanitary and would have kept me
freezing throughout the night. I was by myself down the beach doing the
dishes in private when the men walked down to see what I was up to, much
to everyone’s dismay. Allow me to take a stab at putting this in the
context of the Collars theme: We are critiquing the methods of the
working woman while fully clothed business men are sneering at the
labor. In retrospect, I simply should not have washed the dishes. Okay, we need more intel on the bunny you slaughtered to prepare yourself for Survivor. Where did you get this bunny and how did you kill it and what did you do with it after that? Some
friends of friends of mine put on a special rabbit slaughter and
butchery class. It taught me a lot about the meat industry and the value
of buying meat from a trusted source that treats animals humanely. I
think it’s important for people to understand how their food is acquired
and prepared, particularly as a meat eater. It happened to also serve
the purpose of preparing me for Survivor where we do kill to eat: Joe’s lizard, Mike’s snake (and scorpion), and the chickens from the reward challenge. You very well may have been saved by Mike throwing
that challenge. Did you have any indication when it happened that he was
throwing it, and do you think you would have gone home then had your
tribe lost?
You didn’t get to see it, but Sierra put in a spectacular performance as
well. We had no idea that Escameca threw that challenge—other than
Kelly, of course. Going into that immunity challenge, Hali, Jenn and I
had a deal to vote out Kelly if we had lost in order to weaken the
original blue collars. Whether that would have actually happened, we’ll
never know. I’m 100% happy with not knowing. We’ll see what happens after the merge when it goes
down this week, but what was your immediate reaction on A) making it to
the merge, which is something all players strive for, and B) getting to
shake things up and perhaps escape what may have been your doom at the
next vote on Nagarote?
Making the merge was incredibly special for me. It’s a moment, a
benchmark. It means I’ll get to participate in an individual immunity
challenge. It means I was out there long enough to feel the physical
toll of the game, which I see as a positive—an integral part of the
experience. It means new life in the game.
On thinking he was safe: “I
totally thought I had it in the bag. I walked into that tribe and
Sierra was like a lost puppy. She hated everybody and I was like this is
so easy.” On his current bromance status with Rodney: “Rodney is still my man. We talk every day.” On why Sierra flipped back: “It
was Mike chirping in her ear. He’s got a way with words, that guy…. I
didn’t know that Rodney had 12 prior days of acting like a jackass and
everybody hating him.… I should have probably pulled Joe in and left
Rodney out of the loop.” On who was in on throwing the challenge: “It
was Mike, Dan, and I think possibly Sierra. Rodney brought it up to me
like three times and I kept telling him, ‘Hey, man. We cannot throw this
challenge. It doesn’t even matter how badly we want Joe to go home
because he have four No Collars on the other side. Let’s just win this
and we’ll keep it moving.’ Because me and Tyler were all about winning.
We kept saying to Rodney, ‘Listen, bro, let’s not throw a challenge yet.
There is no reason to do it. Our team is stacked. Let’s just keep
winning.’ It didn’t turn out that way. I don’t how he convinced Mike to
throw the challenge but Mike is a super fan. He knows better than to
throw a challenge not even half way through the game.” On why he didn’t realize Mike was throwing the challenge: “I
honestly thought he was just that dumb. I’m watching him run back and
forth and was like ‘Okay, they’re Blue Collar for a reason. Maybe
they’re just that stupid that they can’t remember.’ But I should have
known. I was literally sitting on the sideline cringing.” On being voted out just before the merge: “I
was just dying for individual play. Obviously you could tell I was a
challenge beast. I was a workhorse. Put me in there and I’m just gonna
win, no matter what. I was just waiting, like please, please I want
individual play. And to be the first one voted out before it, it still
kills me right now. ‘Cause God knows I could have so many more
immunities.” On Survivor being like high school: “The
whole game is high school. Literally from the second we stepped on
there with Shirin it was just high school, high school, high school
drama. And I like to stay out of the drama. That’s exactly what this
game is—it’s like going back to high school.” On Max and Shirin going naked: “Max
did it for a certain reason. Shirin just followed because Max did it
and Shirin was following everything that Max was doing. I couldn’t stand
it. You just have to sit there and not look.”
EW: What is your take
from a production standpoint when members of a tribe decide to throw a
challenge? On one hand, that can give you great story to play with, as
it did this week. On the other hand, it can also potentially sap the
drama out of an immunity challenge, as we have seen occasionally in the
past. JEFF PROBST: There
is a theme to the answers I’ve been giving you to questions like this
one and the uneven tribe swap— and that theme is “whatever will be will
be.” There have been thrown immunity challenges that produce great drama
and those that fall flat. There is simply no sense in worrying about it
because we can’t control it. The players decide what they want to do
and often their decision is impacted by a bigger “group think” that
happens within an alliance. I have learned to really enjoy letting them
play the game on their terms. We set the scenario—the players decide the
action—we tell the story. Here’s a random
question, but one I’ve wondered about and did again after seeing this
latest reward feast: How come contestants no longer get drunk? I
remember Jan in Thailand, Fairplay in Pearl Islands, and even Tom Westman in Palau
getting good and hammered. Do you all generally give the contestants
less booze than you used to on rewards, are they more responsible (which
I find hard to believe), or is this stuff just not making final cut? Great
question and I think the answer is we just haven’t had the right
combination of player/s and alcohol. We definitely would show it if it
happened. There is so much strategy now that people are more aware and
as a result less likely to “lose control.” Okay, we saw the tease
for the merge coming next, which means a whole new game and absolutely
anything can happen. With that in mind, give me your award—which from
here on out we will call The Probsty—for which contestant played the
best PRE-MERGE game. Love
this idea! Okay for the first annual Probsty—I nominate Mike, Carolyn,
Joe and Tyler. For various reasons I think those four have done a good
job at positioning themselves. They each have a strength and they’re
utilizing it to their advantage. And the Probsty goes to…. Joe! I think
he has handled himself really well, tried to stay flexible with the
tribe dynamics, he comes across as empathetic and physically is
definitely a threat. Okay, don’t leave us hanging, mister. Tease us one good thing about next week’s merge episode. Oh it’s ON. It’s a GREAT episode. Everything and everyone is up for grabs and they have to start over… literally!
Despite a very No-Collar exterior, Lindsey Cascaddan proved herself throughout her Survivor experience
to be a true Blue Collar force, and won fans with her refusal down to
some of her more physically imposing tribemates. Though she formed a
close social and strategic bond with Sierra
early in the game, Lindsey had a harder time with the men on her tribe
(each of whom professed to be an expert on the mystical art of talking
to women). I spoke to Lindsey about whether she still has faith in the
Blue Collars, her thoughts on Rodney, and the face tattoo everyone’s
talking about.
Cochran: Let’s start off with the statement you opened and
closed your game with — your belief that the winner of this season of Survivor
will definitely come from the Blue Collar tribe. How much of that was a
sincere belief in your tribe, and how much of that was a political way
of gaining their support? And since they’ve kicked you off, do you
still want the winner to come from that tribe, or are you now Team
“Anything but Blue Collar”?
Lindsey: I’m a lot of things in life, but I’m not a
bitter loser. I think that, after being voted out, the Blue Collars are
even more likely to be winners because they did the right thing by
voting me out. I said from day one that, with my personality, I’m
either going to be the first one out, or you’re not going to be able to
get rid of me. I genuinely believed that a Blue Collar could and will
take this season. I think that, in the beginning, that statement was:
“I would love it to be me, but if it’s not, then I feel like our tribe
could use some unity right now.” And then I said at tribal council that,
regardless of who goes home, I still think the winner is sitting here,
and Jeff seemed really surprised by that. And even now, everyone seems
really surprised by that, but that sentiment is genuine, and I stand by
it.
Cochran: In
the build-up to tribal council, it felt like you had a lot of momentum
on your side. We were seeing the main alliance getting fed up with Rodney’s behavior, and virtually everyone seemed on-board with voting him off. Where did things go wrong between then and tribal?
Lindsey:I
think that, when you come into this game and you find people you can’t
stand or that rub you the wrong way, at first you’re like “let’s vote
them out” because they’re so crazy you don’t want to play the game with
someone like that. And the Blue Collars did all feel that way genuinely
about Rodney. We all said that, although there are bigger threats in
our tribe, no one wanted to work with someone like Rodney. We all said
we’d rather play a wholehearted honest game and just get really dirty
after we vote him out. I think what happened was, more than anything,
Mike and Kelly
saw two things: one, they saw a pair between Sierra and I, which — we
were on fire, we were a dynamic little duo. The two of us were a force
to be reckoned with. The other thing is, you look at a guy like Rodney,
and of course you can’t help but think two things. One: let’s get you
out of here because you’re obnoxious and crazy; and two: I need you to
be sitting next o me because who the hell’s going to vote for you? So I
think when they saw that, they made the right choice, because he’s not
as alpha as I am. The thing with Rodney is, he’s always going to say
he’s alpha, but he’s very threatened by strong personalities.
Especially if they come from a woman.
Cochran: There was a moment a couple weeks ago when you got into a heated argument with Mike,
during which you made reference to his religion in a way that seemed to
really bother him. Do you think that history of fighting may have had
something to do with your downfall by making Mike less likely to defend
you, or was that all water under the bridge by the time of last night’s
tribal?
Lindsey:It
wasn’t water under the bridge: there was tension between Mike and I.
Mike was really upset about my statement about God. At the end of the
day, I wasn’t trying to offend anyone; I was making a statement purely
saying, “It’s great you have God. I’m really happy for you. Anyone
here could have God, and probably does, but that doesn’t change that the
fire is not roaring and bringing us clean water and cooking our food
and keeping us warm, because of God. It’s there because I tended to it
all day and night, so you’re going to see that and you’re going to
recognize that.”
Cochran: One of the hardest parts of Survivor
is having to live with and listen to people who express opinions and
beliefs that run completely counter to your own. We saw your struggle
with that last night when Rodney discussed his take on society’s
expectations of men vs. women. In retrospect, do you wish you would’ve
bitten your tongue instead of engaging with him? And what are your
thoughts on Rodney overall?
Lindsey:I
definitely don’t regret speaking my mind and voicing my opinions to
Rodney. I would never want my daughter to watch me back down to a
personality like his. And I would never justify to my friends or family
doing that for a million dollars. My pride is way more important to
me. I also think it’s important for women and young girls that watch
this show to see that sometimes, you have to stick up for yourselves.
No matter what’s on the line. You have to put yourself first and others
first. Sticking up for humanity is not something I will ever apologize
for or regret.
My thoughts on Rodney are that he’s just sort of this lost boy who needs
a strong male figure in his life. I can’t imagine his mom goes to bed
every night proud of what she’s raised. She might say, “I’m proud of
you,” but that might not mean “I’m proud of what you’re doing.”
Sometimes you’re proud of your kids because they’re your kids and
they’re doing what they can with what they have. I would go out on a
limb to say maybe Rodney’s mom is proud of him doing what he can with
what his deck is, but I am a mom, and I can’t agree that any mother
would watch what we watched last night and say “I’m really proud of
you.”
Cochran: Before Rodney and Mike, the biggest thorn in your side on the Blue Collar tribe was Dan,
who you called out for what you considered to be phony,
attention-seeking behavior. Have your feelings towards Dan softened?
Do you think he’s for real?
Lindsey:Dan is such a showman and he’s such a fan of the show that his idea of being a Survivor player
was being remembered. The first couple days, Dan was on my radar
because he was being this showman; he was being this obnoxious,
annoying, wanting-to-be-remembered character, and I just couldn’t handle
it. It was so out of this world. It was this storybook cartoon
character. As he gets stripped down, though, he becomes so much more
tolerable. Even though he still has these wild moments and these big
personality traits, I feel like in everyday life and camp, he’s really
tolerable. He’s lighthearted and funny and a gentleman. But then when
you get him in front of a camera, you see him talking about how to talk
to women, and that’s just his way of wanting to get something out there
to be remembered by. I don’t take offense to Dan, because he’s just…
Dan. He doesn’t even mean what he’s saying half the time. He just
literally wants someone to be like, “Oh, remember that time Dan lost his
underwear?” So it’s not anything like Rodney, who is literally that
ignorant.
Cochran: In
the midst of all the mayhem and arguing on the Blue Collar tribe, you
seemed to find a real source of calm and sanity with Sierra. What do
you think is the reason for your close bond? What drew you to her?
Lindsey:In
real life, someone looks at Sierra and she’s one of the best rodeo-ers
in the US; she’s a barrel racer; she’s really tall; she’s outrageously
beautiful, and in her everyday life, Sierra sees a lot of women turn her
down and not trust her and talk about her and be catty and conniving
purely based on what she looks like and based on what people think she
might be like. The second I saw Sierra, I wanted to work with her
because she’s confident, she’s beautiful, and I love a woman who can
walk with her head held high. If my personality had a body, I think it
would be Sierra. We work really well together because she’s just this
steadfast, beautiful woman who’s quiet but strong, funny, and kind. And
I think Sierra took a lot of comfort in me because I was the voice to
her thoughts that she didn’t necessarily know how to voice. I am kind
of this beacon of how she actually feels, which probably holds true for a
lot of women in America. I don’t necessarily look like your everyday,
all-American blue-collar girl, but that doesn’t mean I’m not. Sierra
and I just meshed really well. We were literally why people say
opposites attract: because sometimes they just do.
I asked Twitter what they wanted to know about you, and the most
popular question had to do with what’s arguably your least-Blue Collar
feature — your face tattoo. We’ve heard some of your tribemates’ thoughts on it, but what’s the real story behind your tattoo?
Lindsey:My
face tattoo is actually my great grandmother’s wedding lace from her
gown that she got married in, and I drew it out to match that side of my
face. And I decided to put it there when I was in a place in my life
where my career was thriving, I was really happy with my success and
managing my business, and I was a mom, and I just was really happy with
myself. And I got to this point in my life where I found the confidence
that not a lot of women find, and I found this voice inside of me where
being myself was the most comfortable thing to be. A lot of people
look at it and think “Wow, she must be so lost; there must be something
wrong with her.” But it’s not a loud tattoo — it is on my face, but
it’s kind of a quiet color and it’s unique and something I wanted to do
and it’s a bold statement and it’s in your face literally and it’s one
of those things that’s like you can accept it or not accept it. It’s
just who I am. And it represents the women in my family and who we
are. And in a lot of ways I think that being bridal lace represents
exactly what you saw not happen last night — it represents men that
stand by the women in my family. And it’s the type of man that’s not
threatened. It’s the type of man that looks at a strong woman and says,
“That’s my girl.” It doesn’t bother me when people talk about it,
because if it bothered me, I wouldn’t look like this in the first place.
Cochran: Do you have any regrets? Are there moments in the game you wish you could replay, or any conversations you wish you could take back?
Lindsey:I
don’t necessarily have any moments that I regret… I have moments where I
feel like I should’ve empowered Kelly more because I’m good at that.
And especially with women — I should’ve reached out to her and said “We
may not powwow as much as Sierra and I do, but that doesn’t make you any
less important to our group and our alliance.” A lot of times in Survivor,
it’s a matter of stroking someone’s ego. I said it last night that I
left because I hurt a man’s ego, but realistically I think it’s because I
hurt two men’s ego and I didn’t stroke the ego of Kelly, which
apparently needed it. So I don’t have any moments I outright regret,
but I do wish that I had sort of empowered more people on my tribe to go
with who they wanted to go for and play the game they wanted to play
instead of playing the game Survivor says you should play. And I think you see that sometimes if you play the game Survivor says you should play, it doesn’t necessarily work out the way Survivor says it will.
Cochran: Life on the Blue Collar tribe looked pretty rough; tempers flared, words were exchanged,
and some questionable philosophies about how to talk to women were
shared. But there had to be some great moments, too — what’s your
fondest memory from your Survivor experience?
Lindsey:I think my fondest Survivor
memory is just the self-reflection that I was able to do. In my real
life, I’m such a control freak and I’m a mom and I’m a go-getter and I’m
constantly busy and constantly going. And I don’t think that my
fondest Survivor moment came from anyone apart from myself. I
learned so much about myself. I played this game that is just wild and
so twisting and turning and — somewhere along the way — I learned the
life that I have and the things that I do and the way I do them, I’m
doing them the way I wanted to do them, and I came home and wanted to
continue doing them. And I got the chance to show friends and family
and America and whoever’s watching the wild journey that sometimes being
yourself and taking pride in what you believe in and standing up for
people that can’t stand up for themselves or just don’t know how to is
worth more than any amount of money.
It was undoubtedly a strange outing for Max Dawson. A well-known figure in the online Survivor
community, there was a lot of expectation for Max to take the game of
Survivor on by storm. But on Wednesday night's episode of "Survivor: Worlds Apart,"
Max was sent home way sooner than many anticipated. For a guy who
teaches a college course on Survivor, his outing this season can't be
described as anything but disappointing.
In case you missed it, here is the full Episode 4 and 5 Recap. And follow me on Twitter (@tomsantilli) for all of my Survivor coverage, including my exclusive exit interview each week.
Few players are met with the kind of pre-game hype that Max was.
Many couldn't wait for him to fail, since there would be nothing more
enticing to an internet troll than to jump on a "Survivor Professor" who
failed at the game. There were many of us though on the other side of
the spectrum, those of us who expected to see great things from a
so-called "expert" of the game. Max definitely knows Survivor, although
he was not shown to really know the game, if you catch my meaning.
Max immediately was portrayed as more aloof and eccentric than he was
maniacal or calculating. He swam naked in the ocean as an homage to
Richard Hatch and often made references to the fact that he was living
out his life-long dream of being on Survivor. In some ways, it seems
like he was overwhelmed and distracted by the fact that he was on the
show, instead of actually taking this incredible opportunity to play the
game. Even still, Max appeared to start off in a somewhat good
position, playing a part in voting out So Kim and being aligned with the
right people.
But along the way, he ended up aligning himself way too closely to
Shirin, who increasingly became seen as completely annoying. He didn't
seem to mind, or if he did, he wasn't shown doing so. Carolyn had set
her sights on him even before the tribal shake-up, and she became the
devil in disguise for Max's game when she was placed on Max and Shirin's
tribe post shake-up. Max surprisingly didn't have the awareness to
consider that Carolyn may flip, or that Shirin was rubbing people the
wrong way, or to pretty much catch anything that was working against him
in the game. He was shown only as wanting to swim, and it didn't help
him with his tribe when he got stung by stingrays and had to use the
tribe's clean water pot to soak his feet.
Carolyn eventually did flip on Max, and he was voted out of the game
pre-merge. I spoke with Max today about his time in the game, the hype
surrounding his performance and what the reaction has been from the
Survivor community. Max Dawson: Hey Tom, what's going on man? Tom Santilli, Survivor Examiner: Max! Good to talk to you.
So not many people come into the game of Survivor with the level of
pre-game hype and high expectation as you did. There was a lot made
about your Survivor knowledge, you being big in the Survivor online
community, and the fact that you taught a college class on Survivor. So
people obviously expected you to do great things. Did you feel this
abnormal, additional amount of pressure coming into the game, that the
other players maybe didn't have to deal with? Max: Definitely. I felt like I had high
expectations and the sort of expectations that are typical reserved for
returning players. Simply on account of the fact that a number of them
knew who I was. New players when they play Survivor, unless I guess
they've been on The Amazing Race, typically do so from a standpoint of
relative anonymity. They have no past history with the show and nothing
but the opportunity to prove to the world why they deserve to be there.
I had the opportunity on the other hand, to prove to everybody why I
didn't deserve to be there. So I did feel like it was a tough position
to be in. Also, in the past with the quote-unquote "stunt" casting with
like Jeff Kent or Lisa Welchel, they managed to maintain their
anonymity within the game, for a pretty significant period of time in
the game. I was recognized immediately. Within five minutes of the
game starting, So Kim came up to me while we were alone and said I know
who you are, I know what you know and I know what you're capable of.
So that was kind of a tough place to start out the game from. Not only
knowing the expectations that would be placed on me back home, but on
the island I had people who had essentially thought that I was some sort
of Survivor genius, and they were going to play the game with me or
against me accordingly. Tom Santilli: Tell me about who you were prior to playing
Survivor. Would you have described yourself as a "Survivor Genius"?
Did you have a cockiness that some have (who have never played the game)
that you would do awesome if ever given the chance? Max: No not at all. I went in the game totally
cognizant of the fact that many of the assets that have made me
successful in my life could potentially factor against me in the game.
The Type A, driven personality that is a necessity for being successful
in the world of Acadamia and the world of business, often translates
poorly when you're out on the island. You're seen as being pushy,
bossy, domineering, an asshole, and get voted out for it. I also knew
that the passion I had for Survivor wouldn't be shared by all of my
fellow contestants. There would be people out there who couldn't care
less about my love for the game. They're just going to say hey, this
guy knows more than me, he's a threat. I came into this game with the
idea that I was either going to be the first boot, or that I was going
to be the last boot before the Final Three. Because either people were
going to see me as dangerous on account of my Survivor knowledge, or I
was going to slip by and not be much of a physical threat, and a big
enough goofball to be seen as someone who wasn't a real social threat.
Then people would get to the end and realize that the last thing they
want to do is to give any sort of speech before or after a guy with a
PhD, and a guy who has a career in talking, not just about Survivor, but
about things I'm passionate about. Tom Santilli: And I'm sure that because of how passionate
you are about Survivor, there was no chance that you could have come
into the game with the strategy that you were going to somehow downplay
your Survivor smarts. Max: Well there was no chance after So basically
came up to me and held it up against me like a gun that she would fire
if I didn't vote her way. In terms of why So went home first, it wasn't
because she was an unpleasant person. So Kim was a very, very adept
Survivor contestant. She was someone who know how to play this game,
and who is someone that I thought would be my biggest rival as far as
creating multiple alliances within my tribe. At one point I had a
relationship with everyone in the tribe and So did too. And I didn't
like that. But given that So had essentially said I know who you are
and I'm going to use this against you if you don't come along with me, I
felt like, well, why hide it? Why conceal who I am? Why not embrace
it? Why not try to get people enthusiastic? But never during the 11
days I was with the white collar tribe, do I feel like my Survivor
fandom or my background worked against me. There were other things that
worked against me. Like the fact that Carolyn didn't understand how me
and Shirin had used her as a decoy to blindside So. After that vote,
Carolyn was very disturbed that her name had been written down twice.
And she went to Joaquin and asked why did you write my name down? And
Joaquin said, because Max told me to. After that moment on, Carolyn had
it in her head that not only was I untrustworthy, but that I was some
sort of Jimmy Jones-like master-manipulator, who had an endless supply
of Kool-Aid that I was using to pull fast ones on the slower-witted
members of our tribe. Add to that that Carolyn had some personal issues
with Shirin, that pretty much destroyed what I had thought would have
been a 39 day alliance. Tom Santilli: We have all heard you taught a course on
Survivor, but not many of us know much more than that. Can you tell me
about this class and what you teach? Max: The funny thing is that people thought the
class was about how to make a fire using flint, or how to orchestrate
the greatest blindside, or what you can eat out in the wild. The class
was just a history of Reality Television and its impact on American
popular culture, told through the lens of a case study on Survivor. I
was passionate about the show and looking for a way to spice up a class I
had taught every year, so I just said here's how we're going to do it!
We're going to learn about Reality TV
by studying Survivor, by studying its history, the impact it had on
American TV and American pop culture. And to make it a little bit more
fun for me, we are going to play Survivor in the classroom. I divided
up the class into four tribes, they competed against each other in our
weekly quizzes. The outcome of those quizzes would determine which
tribe was immune from the mid-term exam, and if your tribe did the best
on the weekly quizzes, you'd get an automatic A on the mid-term. And we
would have past Survivor contestants come in and talk about what it's
like to be on a Reality TV show. So how will this experience impact my
teaching? My left my professorship two years ago to accept a position
as a consultant and researcher in the television industry. Right now I
work with major cable networks and devise Reality TV programming
strategies. Pretty much every major network is currently on my client
list. In terms of how my time on Survivor may impact my current job, it
just gives us something fun to talk about, when we kick off a meeting
and I tell them about new programming research we've done for them. Tom Santilli: And these clients are probably extremely happy
to know that you are wearing clothes at these meetings, I'd imagine... Max: Well hey listen. Some people have actually
started requesting that I come to these meetings in my Survivor garb,
with just a pair of yellow sneakers and a buff around my neck and
nothing else. What can I say, I have to give the people what they want. Tom Santilli: (Laughs) Fantastic. So forgive me for saying
this, but I feel like you were portrayed as a super-fan on the show,
who was just awe-struck and happy to be on the show, as opposed to a
super-fan who came in ready to apply their knowledge and win the game.
Do you feel that your love of Survivor may have gotten in the way of
your ability to actually play Survivor? Max: I think it might have. Had I not had in
Shirin this amazing kindred-spirit, I would have had nowhere to vent
that excitement and the awe that I was experiencing, and as a result I
might have been a little more low-key and less on the radar than people
who get annoyed by people who are really excited to be playing Survivor.
In all honesty, I knew that in-depth Survivor knowledge was something
that could identify you as being a threat. I never thought that extreme
passion for Survivor would elicit disdain from other people who have
self-identified as life-long Survivor fans. To me, being out there on
Survivor, yes, it's important to keep in check your excitement when you
see Jeff Probst or walking into Tribal Council. And I think I did a
decent job of doing that. But when you are spending tedious hours
around the campfire and all the work has been done, Idols have been
searched for, what do you do? You sit around and talk. And what do I
have in common with these people? The fact that I'm playing Survivor
with them. What's your favorite season? Who is your favorite player?
When is the first time you watched? Having Shirin there, we were able
to vibe on that shared interest. Tom Santilli: Speaking of Shirin, Jeff Probst and many
others always talk about "self-awareness" as a vital attribute one must
have in order to do well in Survivor. Shirin was your closest ally, so
were you unaware how others were perceiving her, or did you just not
care that you would be associated with someone that was getting on the
nerves of everyone else? Max: Well I knew that Shirin was considered
annoying on both tribes we were on. Tyler and Joaquin had their fill of
Shirin I think by the end of the first day. Jenn within a few hours of
the swap came to me, rolled her eyes and asked, does she ever shut up?
I knew Shirin was having a difficult time fitting in with everyone but
me. All my life I've been surrounded by people like Shirin. By that I
don't mean annoying people, I mean smart, quirky, original, driven,
brilliant, high-achievers. Those are the types of people I want to be
around. Whether or not they have the social graces enough to navigate
Survivor is another question. Part of the reason why I wanted Shirin
around was that I planned on doing some nasty stuff out there, I planned
on getting my hands dirty, on blindsiding some people. I knew that
Shirin would have absolutely no qualms in doing any of that. I knew
that she would absolutely relish the opportunity to play the game. I
also knew that given the inherent sexism that exists on Survivor, that
if I was sitting at the end with Shirin and if we had equally soiled our
hands, that she would be seen by the jury as being a bitch, and in
Joaquin's words, a paranoid woman. Where I would stand a better chance
of winning and being seen as a master-mind or a cult leader. It was
strategy. I liked Shirin and wanted to be around her, but I also wanted
to be around her because in the end, I could beat her. Tom Santilli: In your CBS.com
day after interview, you said that at the end of the day, you just
wanted to bring honor to the game that you love. Do you feel like you
accomplished that? Max: Yes. I feel like I honored Survivor in every
single moment that I played the game. I played as hard as I could, I
left nothing out there. As was evident by the fact that as soon as I
came out of the game, I fell into a deep sickness in which I was
quarantined for a week. I had absolutely nothing left in my tank. I
lost a tremendous amount of weight, I suffered a tremendous amount of
injuries and illnesses, all in the spirit of giving Survivor everything
that I had. Given the fact that there was a lot that I didn't get to do
out there that I wanted, like win a million dollars for example, make
the merge, having Jeff put the necklace on after a challenge win. I got
to play Survivor. I got to live a dream. And that's something that
I'm going to cherish for the rest of my life.
EW: Okay, let’s talk
about this first reward challenge and Kelly’s injury. Let’s break it up
into a few different parts. First question: When you did any of the
rehearsals with the Dream Team where they go through and compete several
times in the challenge to test it out, was anyone just dropping the
platform down like Dan and Will were? Did you anticipate any safety
issues before the challenge began? JEFF
PROBST: Great question, and the answer is no. All of the Dream
Teamers let the platform down smoothly and in a fairly calm manner. But
Dream Teamers are not playing for a million dollars. And no matter how
much we encourage them to really push it, there are some things you just
can’t fake, like pretending that you really are playing for a million
dollars!! So while rehearsals are extremely helpful, we are still often
surprised when we run the challenge with the actual contestants. Take us through the
medical check-up on Kelly after she got hurt. Concussion protocol is a
big thing in sports these days before letting people go back in to
compete. Was she checked for any sort of head trauma besides the actual
surface gash on her face? And how worried were you when you saw blood
coming out through her buff? Oh, I
was definitely worried when I saw the blood. The odd thing was Kelly
was so calm throughout the entire event. She answered every question our
doctor asked her thoroughly and in a very relaxed manner. She kept
reminding us that “I work in law enforcement; I deal with trauma all the
time. This is not a big deal.” Nonetheless, our doctors gave her a very
thorough examination, not only addressing the cut and the fact that it
would need stitches as soon as the challenge was over, but we also gave
her some time just to make sure she was really okay. The most unusual
part of the challenge was that everyone had to remain blindfolded
because if we let them take off their blindfolds they would be able to
look out into the field and see where their remaining objects were and
we would have to start over. So I felt really uncomfortable keeping
everybody “in the dark” so to speak and yet it seemed to be the only
fair and appropriate response. When you started the
challenge back up again, did you instruct the people working the
platforms to stop letting go of the rope, and to let it down gently
instead from there on out? Oh yes, and to be clear I had been shouting it to them throughout the challenge. But in the chaos of playing Survivor it is sometimes hard to hear the ever droning host even on the rare occasions when he saying something helpful! Let’s move on to the big
tribe switcheroo. Obviously a huge physical disparity in the tribes,
but when you mapped out the split in terms of how the people would mix
with each other, I’m guessing you had to be pretty thrilled in the sense
that each camp featured both alliance outsiders and swing votes. Give
me your breakdown of the new tribes when you first saw them. Here’s
my honest feeling after any tribe switch…. I look at the two tribes and
I announce who is on which tribe and I move forward. I honestly don’t
think very much about it. I have learned over the years that a tribe
switch should always be random and you can never predict what the
divisions will be or what kind of success they will have or stories it
will produce, regardless of what it looks like on paper. I thought Jenn had a pretty good quote when she said “Why would they let us know they know that much about Survivor?”
about Max and Shirin. I saw John Cochran do the same thing his first
time out by not hiding how much he knew about the game. Are superfans
working at a disadvantage when they constantly blab about what superfans
they are? I would never disclose my Survivor nerdom if I were playing this game. I think it really depends on the person. I would not be drawn to—or put off by— somebody simply because they were a Survivor
fan. To me it’s more about what are they like day to day. Do they have
any self-awareness about how they are coming off at any given moment?
Being able to take an educated guess at what might happen next because
you’ve studied the game is certainly a bit of an advantage, but if
that’s all it took to win, then all of our winners would be massive
superfans…and that’s not been the case. Quick—and without looking
it up—now that the White Collar, Blue Collar, and No Collar tribe
designations are gone, can you name the official name of the
now-disbanded White Collar tribe, because I sure as hell can’t? I didn’t
even know the other tribe names until this last episode. Ha ha—that’s funny. I can remember Nargarote (No Collar) and Escameca (Blue Collar), but I am drawing a blank on the White Collar tribe. Point made. Okay, a nice double shot of episodes this week. What’s on tap next, sir? One castaway is struggling big time to fit in with their tribe.
EW: There’s no doubt that any difference can really stand out in Survivor and
Nina repeatedly referenced her hearing disability as a reason why her
tribe would not accept her. However, her tribe countered that she
was the one focused so much on that as opposed to them, and we saw this
play out at Tribal Council. You were out there and got a good feel for
them at the two Tribals. Were they ostracizing her because of that or
was she making too much of her own lack of hearing? JEFF PROBST: This brings up two key points that any Survivor
player must master if they have any chance to win: #1. You Must Be
Self-Aware. You have to be have some sense of how the world sees you,
how you come across to others. If you don’t possess #1 then you can’t
get to #2 and #2 is the one that gets you voted out. #2. On The Island,
Perception Is Reality. Period. So now let’s take the case of Nina, who I
think is a really devoted mom and wife and probably has a beautiful
life–off the island. But what I witnessed during casting and on the show
is that Nina is not aware of how she comes across to others. Lack of
self-awareness. Nina does complain a lot. You can make the argument that
“you’d complain too if this happened to you” and that’s a fair
statement. But on Survivor
that complaining is read by others as being a pain in the ass. And
worse, she placed her need to complain on the shoulders of her
tribemates for not doing a better job of dealing with her hearing
issues. From what I saw of the tribe they
did try to accommodate Nina initially…but there was a point where they
started to see her as more of a victim. And whether or not that is true,
is unfortunately irrelevant. It’s point #2—On The Island, Perception Is
Reality. Once they saw her that way, her game was over. Personally, I
felt for Nina because I think she really wanted to fit in and be a part
of the tribe and I think we saw how tough that is for her to do. And it
did make me ask myself—given the same challenge—”How would I do?” It’s
very easy to critique from the sidelines and say, “Oh, just deal with
it.” It’s another to be the one actually having to deal with it. I
applaud Nina for coming on the show and giving it a shot. I love your big epic challenges,
but I also like it sometimes when you just keep it simple, and tonight’s
contest was a perfect example as teams had to race back with giant
buckets of water—however, with holes in the bucket that needed to be
plugged along the way, making teamwork a key component. Tell me your
thoughts on these sorts of challenges as well as what you were thinking
when you saw No Collar sending Nina away, thereby leaving more holes
completely unplugged? I
love these types of challenges where there is a mixture of physical with
strategy under the umbrella of teamwork. Okay, my truth about what I
think happened with Nina. I think that as a group, the No Collars are
pretty caring humans. I also think they’re pretty bright. When you look
at that challenge, so much of the communication is happening without
players looking at each other. You’re plugging holes, stepping over
obstacles, standing under gushing water—you really have to scream and be
able to hear each other scream in order to be effective. Again, this is
just my personal opinion and nothing more—but I think they felt she was
going to be a liability because of her hearing—but they couldn’t say
that for fear of being seen as discriminatory. So
they blamed it on vague answers that really made no sense. I felt for
both sides. It’s a tough call. There is a million dollar check for ONE
winner. It forces you to make decisions that sometimes you aren’t proud
of—and that’s what I think happened in this case. I don’t think you have ever had a
season where varying definitions of work ethic have not created some
major strife between contestants, and we saw some blow-ups on the Blue
Collar tribe this week between Mike and Rodney and Mike and Lindsey. Did
it surprise you to see this happen on the tribe defined by their
physical hard-working life-style, or is that exactly what you expected
to happen here? Plus, who really is to blame for those fights? My
initial reaction was surprise—I didn’t expect to see such emotion in
every aspect of their game. But then I started thinking of our reality
crews that shoot the tribes on their beaches. Those people are
definitely “No Collars”: They live a life on their own terms for
sure—BUT…when it comes to working that beach, they are 100% blue
collar. They bust their ASS every day to get the shots and sounds we
need to tell the stories of our contestants. It’s humbling how dedicated
they are. And when I think about them after work is over, it’s the
same. Whether they are drinking beer or playing darts—they are doing it
with the same vigor that they have on the beach. They laugh so loud they
wake up the rest of the crew. And if an argument breaks out over which
Football/Rugby team is better—it can get heated and even more people are
awakened! In other words, they do everything they do with total
investment. That was really enlightening for me to make that
connection. Blue Collars don’t just work hard, they do everything with
intensity. I’m not the first to say it, but without blue collars,
‘merica doesn’t exist. They are the back bone of everything. As to who
is to blame for the arguments— who knows. For this I say refer back to
question #1. Bonus question! Just curious:
Would you stand there and watch two howler monkeys have sex and then
offer a detailed play-by-play account for your friends? Uh,
no. I might watch them— that could be fascinating for a minute. But no,
I’m not that interested in then sharing every detail with the tribe. I
love that Shirin does those kinds of things. I have NO idea if she is
100% authentic or just a really crafty player who is “playing” a bit of a
role. Doesn’t matter, so long as she…is self-aware and knows that
perception is reality! Is this getting through yet?! :) No Collar is on the ropes and it
looks like we have some more drama at Blue Collar coming up. What can
you tease for next week’s episode? I can’t tease it hard enough—next week is awesome. Dare I say the best ep of the season? So much good stuff including a Survivor/medical
moment. AND…next week we are giving you TWO EPISODES! Two! Back to
back! And in the second episode we have more amazing Survivor moments including a Survivor/wildlife moment. I’m really not hyping it—it’s a great two-hour block.
Tom Santilli, Survivor Examiner: Hello Nina! Sorry to see you go! Nina Poersch: Oh thank you! I'm sorry to see me go too! Tom Santilli: First, I wanted to clear something up from
last week. When I spoke to Vince, he told me with confidence and
clarity that you had an Immunity Idol and that he saw it, but you were
never shown finding one. So did you have an Idol in your possession or
not? Nina: I did not have an Idol. Vince and I had
talked, and I had been getting asked by the whole tribe over and over
again if I had found one. Jenn even asked me and I told her no and she
said, well, you've been out searching for a long time, so I think that
you have an Idol. I was like, well, you can think what you want but I
don't have an Idol. Of course, I wouldn't have told her anyways if I
did. But I told Vince, they all think I have an Idol, maybe we should
just let them think I have one and let them split the vote. So I let
Vince think that he came up with the idea, whatever. As long as we can
make it work for us, I'm game. But no they thought I had an Idol, but I
didn't. Tom Santilli: OK, well that clears that up, not sure what
Vince was talking about. So anyways, about your hearing. You seemed
deeply affected by your tribe's reaction to your hearing loss. But
going into the game, you had to know that it would come up and would
need to be addressed. What reaction did you hope for? What were your
expectations? Nina: Going into the game, I knew it was going to
be hard. I knew also that I would have some struggles being one of the
oldest ones there. But honestly, when I look at myself, I don't see a
deaf person. Yeah, I'm deaf, I have cochlear implants and I don't hear
perfect like you or anyone else who hears normal. But I really didn't
expect it to play a part in my game at all. I kind of just expected
people to say, oh OK, she can't hear that well, that's fine, we're good.
And that's not how it went down. I can tell you when I first got to
the beach, Joe asked me if I was going to be able to do challenges. I
looked at him and said, yeah, why? He said, well, because you can't
hear. I was like, how was that going to make any difference? I was
very confident that I was going to be able to do the challenges. So I
knew right then and there on Day One that Joe had planted the seed that
he had doubted me because of my hearing, and I was really bummed by
that. Vince told me over and over that the girls didn't like me because
I couldn't hear. So I had a lot of things being said to me about my
hearing, and I knew because of that, that this was going to suck. Tom Santilli: Many of your tribe mates though, said that it
was you, not them, who continued to talk about it and make it an issue.
Is there any validity to that? Nina: I really don't. I know it looked that way,
and it may have seemed that way for them, but the fact of the matter is,
they were bothered by the fact that I couldn't hear. They did think I
wasn't going to be able to perform because I couldn't hear. The vibes
that I got off of them was that they didn't want me there because I
couldn't hear. The vibes that I got is that they wish they would have
had someone else on their tribe, but they got, quote-unquote "stuck"
with me. I guess with them being young, they just really don't know how
to deal with someone who has a disability. I think they didn't want to
come across as being bullies, which they weren't, I never thought of
them as bullies. But they didn't want to come across as, you know,
being politically incorrect that they didn't want to be with a hearing
impaired person. But I never one time said to them that I couldn't do
something because of my hearing. Tom Santilli: You were also the oldest person on your tribe.
Do you think that and/or other factors more than just your hearing,
played into your inability to really fit in with them? Nina: I don't really feel like my age played a
factor for me, I feel like my age played a factor for all of them. They
looked at me like this older woman. I was old enough to be all of
their moms except for Will. I have a 31-year-old son, Vince is 32.
They just didn't like that. For me, I can blend in and hang out with my
son and have a blast. I hang out with young people all the time and
have a blast. But for them, maybe it was just too weird to hang out
with an older person and try to have some fun. Tom Santilli: If you don't mind, I know that a lot of fans
are curious about your condition. You weren't born deaf, you became
deaf at a certain point. Explain to me, if you will, what your cochlear
implants do, how they work, and what it's like for you to hear and
carry on with your every-day life. Nina: With the cochlear implants you have a device
that is implanted in your cochlea, and then you wear an external speech
processor, that sort of looks like a hearing aid but it doesn't go in
your ear canal. All of the voices and everything go through that speech
processor and communicates with the computer chip that's inside your
head, and that's how you can hear. Now, my hearing range is much
smaller than a normal person's so because of that, sometimes we miss
certain sounds when we're talking to people. Some can hear men's voices
better than women's. For me I hear women better than men. Whispering
is a little bit harder. In my every-day life, I function fine. One of
the main things I need though, is when I do talk to people, I need them
to face me. I am not a great lip-reader at all. But when you can hear
what someone is saying and see their lips moving, it makes it a whole
lot easier to hear. Other than that I live a completely normal life, I
mean look, here we are talking on the phone. Tom Santilli: Almost everybody who plays Survivor says they'd play again in a heartbeat if asked. But in your day-after CBS.com interview, you said that you would not play again. Tell my why you wouldn't play again. Nina: When we did that interview that was right
after the game ended, and I was still very emotional that I got voted
out and about how I felt about it all. So back then sure, there was no
way I was playing again. But if you ask me that today or last month or
a few months ago now that I've been back home and have had a chance to
really absorb my whole experience, I would say yes, I would totally play
again. I would play again and I would play a totally different game.
I think I would go into it a bit more headstrong and much more
aggressive. Tom Santilli: Let's talk about that last challenge. What
was Joe's strategy all about (not including you in it), and do you have
any regrets for going along with it? Nina: I do 100% regret going along with his
decision and wish that I would not have. Because if I did participate I
really think we could have won that challenge. Joe did not give me a
reason in the beginning. He didn't explain things until we got back to
camp. And he said Nina, we really just thought you would get in our
way. You tripped on the high step in the first challenge and we thought
that you would trip up there and that you would bring us down. Which
is, you know, stupid. That was a dumb reason to sideline me in that
challenge. We would have totally won.
'Survivor' recap: 'Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner'/'We're Finally Playing Some Survivor' 
'Survivor' exit Q&A: Nina unloads on her team 
'Survivor': 4 Q's for Jeff Probst and a deleted scene 
'Survivor' recap: Monkeying around 
'Survivor' recap: Naked and afraid (of seeing naked people) 
'Survivor' Q&A with Vince Sly: 'Was I jealous of Joe? No.' 
'Survivor': 3 Q's for Jeff Probst, and a deleted scene 
